Angus: Hello everybody, and welcome to ListenABLE thanks so much for tuning in and it’s going to be an episode that’s a little bit different this week Dylan Dylan: yeah, this is the first time we’re profiling someone that doesn’t have a disability, but when we launched this podcast, we were going to talk about everything. Nothing is off limits, and we’re going to talk to people, you know, parents of people with disabilities, they won’t have disabilities themselves. We’re going to talk about assistive technology, so like whys that we can help maybe things about funding schemes, government, we’re going to go really broad here Angus: I’d love to get, you know, the person who runs a disability scheme in Australia in here.
With questions from people with disability on how they can make Australia a more inclusive society Dylan: yeah exactly Angus: it doesn’t necessarily have to be disabled people in their stories. We’re trying to make people all across the world more learned on accessibility. Dylan: Yeah, exactly right. But also the ways that people can help. And, and obviously for a lot of people with disability, they’re often left out of social circles, um, which is really tough.
And the most intimate of social circles, you know, your partner relationships as something that’s often. People with disability are often left by the wayside. And could you imagine, I mean, Angus, you’re in a happy relationship how that that’d be like to never have that opportunity Angus: well love sex, romance, intimacy seems to be a topic that not only do people want to know, even the disabled community want to know about it from other people, hear their stories, but it seems to be a recurring theme of question.https://www.instylemag.com.au/best-dating-apps People who don’t feel themselves can be loved.
Dylan: Yeah. And I was like, Hmm. Who can we get on to talk about this?
Angus: Maybe the person who loves you the most outside your family. Dylan: Yeah. And it happens to also be one of the most learned people on this topic that we can find, you know, in this country, if not around the world.
Angus: can’t wait to meet this person Dylan: not just saying that, because I love her with all my heart. Angus: Let’s meet our next guest. Chantelle: Hi, my name’s Chantelle Otten.
I am Dylan’s partner and a psycho sexologist working with a lot of people in the disabled community. Dylan: Beautiful hey Chantelle great to met you. Not that we know each other that well Angus: I said at the start, let’s meet our guests, but of course we have all met.
You are the partner of Dylan, someone who he referenced in the first episode of ListenABLE the love of his life. Chantelle: yes It’s me Angus: and there are so many things that, you’re able bodied? There are so many things that people want to know about. Not necessarily, I mean, yes, your relationship in general, but also people need to know what you do in this space because once they get past the fact that.
Yeah, I’m sure you chat to couples and their relationships and their sex, but there’s so much more to your role and you as a person. It’s really interesting I can’t wait for people to hear this episode. Dylan: So for people that don’t know much about what a psycho sexologist is. I know when we met, like I didn’t know too much about it either.
I was just very excited when some Chantelle Otten Sexologist sent me an Instagram. I was like, ‘Hey how you going’ can you explain what that means? Chantelle: Yeah. So I am someone who’s trained in psychology, and then I’ve done my science medicine degree specializing in sexual medicine, and I help anyone who has a sexual concern or query or worry around sexuality.
And that includes people with different types of abilities, medical conditions, um, mental health conditions as well. I run the sexual medicine clinic at a private hospital in . Melbourne, Australia, and I also have the largest psycho sexology practice in Australia. So I have quite a number of sexologists who work for me, and we all specialize in different things. Uh, and my favorite is the most complicated things.
Angus: You also have an incredible voice I mean you have a beautiful voice. Dylan: ASMR is that what it’s called? Angus: Oh yeah, ASMR, yeah Dylan: hey I hear it. Every night, I’m the lucky spending the world. Angus: God, you’ve got a great voice, Chantie Chantelle: Thank you Dylan: especially with the mic’s on.
Now I think there is a misconception about. Sexology, that it’s lava lamps and carpet and like, you know, talk about Angus: spinning circle beds Dylan: or like whatever it is. Chantelle: Could be, but it’s not. Dylan: Yeah, exactly right. I think, I mean.
The work that you do, the work you do really helps a lot of people of all different, as you said, disability but also illnesses. So like what kind of like people come in and see you? Chantelle: Yeah. So we see individuals and couples, uh, from people who are of all types of sexual orientations and gender identities.
And I specialize mainly in seeing people with medical conditions such as, um, you know. People who are on oncology ward. So cancer people in different medications, different life stages as well.
Um, and then I also see people who are, uh, you know, struggling with different kinds of mental health conditions, but people after accidents, you know, that have, um, impaired them in some way, or people who are just adjusting to the new me. If something’s happened within their body. Um, or you know, within their life that’s meant that they can’t function in the way that they used to function sexually. Um, and also from a self esteem level, then that’s my job to really be there and, you know, be hand in hand with them on this journey to making sure that they have a sexually satisfying life and that they are able to be out in the community. And find meaningful relationships with people.
Um, and I love it. So I’m very much, uh, involved with the people that come and see me and, you know, sex is sometimes the last thing that we speak about in our sessions, a lot of the time, it’s really about building up their confidence. And making sure that they don’t feel like they’re alone, because a lot of people feel like they the only one that’s struggling with that problem at that time, and that they’re not normal but realistically, you know, there’s hundreds if not thousands of people that are also going through very similar things. Angus: Uh, Dylan and yourself started dating around the same time that Emily and I did.
And so, uh, I was discovering what your role entailed, um, at the same time that Dylan was. So when Dylan came in, those first initial weeks of you dating, he’s like, you won’t believe what my girlfriend Chanties does. And I’m like, and I’m sure lot of people, when they hear sexologist, they go, okay, you charge $200 bucks an hour you get couples who are unhappy and they come in, they sit down the leather couch and you told them, you know, do this, do that, go home. And then when Dylan told me about some of the stuff you’ve done in oncology wards, he was telling me about potential patients that have, have maybe become paraplegic and now their penis doesn’t work. And it’s your job to tell them what sex means for them.
My whole, it’s like someone opened up the curtain to a lifestyle I’d never thought about. It’s such an important role because sex, as we’ve learned in this podcast. Is so important to not only able body people like myself,but to everyone. Chantelle: Yeah.
Everyone deserves a sexually satisfying life. Dylan: I’ve got one! Chantelle: Yeah, me too. Dylan: Yey!.
Chantelle: What a surprise. I think it’s interesting. You’ll probably know more about that than I do because I’m just living my life and doing my job. So you get to see it from an outsiders perspective Dyl Dylan: now, before I came into your life though, um, you were touched by disability.
Well before me. Can you explain? Chantelle: Yeah, so I come from a family where there are four children, and my older sister is 11 months older than me. Her name’s Stephanie, and we were both born in December. We used to think we were twins, but that changed when we were younger, when she started going to a specialist school because she.
Was born with a condition called gastro thesis, which means that your intestines your stomach is on the outside of your body when you’re born. And she had lack of oxygen during her operation to put that inside her body so she has a big scar from the bottom of her chest down to her pelvic region. We call it her zipper cause she doesn’t have a belly button.
Um, and she was. Uh, I guess my parents didn’t realize that she had an intellectual disability until we were in prep together. And then we kind of started realizing that she did things a lot differently. She is an extremely intelligent person.
Um, and she is also married to an intellectually disabled man. Um, and they, who is, who has a brother who’s also intellectually disabled. So I’ve grown up in a community where. I’ve known a lot about disability, but I think prior to you Dyl, I didn’t know a huge amount about physical disability.
Apart from, you know, my patients and people that were in my community, I was very much involved in the intellectual disabled community. You know, since I was really, really young. Dylan: One of the things that I loved most about joining your family and was the way that your family integrated Steph and chip into.
Their lives, but also enable them to be independent so they don’t live at home and they’re not like babysat as such. They live independently. Can you explain how it works?
Chantelle: Yeah, so they live in an apartment next door to my family. Um, my parents, uh, own the apartment and they are, you know, they love their independence, but they also love being connected. I would say my brother-in-law loves coming over a lot more than my sister does. If it was her choice, she would stay at home and watch movies all day long.
Um, but they both work full time and they also volunteer. So, um, chipy, my brother-in-law, he works at a supermarket and you know is in customer service and my sister works in a workplace for intellectually disabled adults and she does like packaging and she kind of wins awards for me and like the best packager and all that kind of stuff. And she, uh, yeah, she does volunteer work as well.
She has been fired from a few volunteer roles. Dylan: Aw she’s a diva. Chantelle: She is such a diva, Dylan: she gets what she wants Chantelle: you know what.
Dylan: Hey like a sister. No. Angus: Runs in the family Chantelle: she just, every time we have to wash the dishes after family dinner, Steph just conveniently needs to go to the bathroom Angus: clever Dylan: so do I. We both use our disability to get out of it Angus: Dylan can’t reach the sink apparently Chantelle: yeah. We have a theory in my family that she’s been faking it for 30 years. Angus: It’s just convenient when she needs it to be convenient Chantelle: yeah.
She’s like way smarter than all of us Dylan: That’s so good Angus: now. Dylan: Can I just ask one question before we move on Angus: of course Dylan: do they have sex with eachother Chantelle: yeah. So they have a really active sex life from our knowledge. And you would know from family dinner that they love to chat about it. Um, Steph told me Dylan: the reason we’re able to talk about this like, we would not normally ask about their sex lives, but they openly bring it up Chantelle: thye are like obsessed with talking about their sex lives and she will, my sister can’t read or write, but she uses Siri to like talk and send messages and she’ll accidentally send me dirty texts that she’s sending to my brother in law sometimes and she’ll be like, love you sexy man.
And then she’ll be like, whoops that was for Chip but she’s so meant to send it to me just so I’d know. She’ll say like, she’s like, Oh, we go through a bottle of lube a week and I don’t know what they’re doing. Like if they’re putting it on toast, but we just have them do it.
Dylan: I’ll be a touch scared if I get that text one day. Chantelle: She’s pretty open, I mean, she’s very flirtatious with you Dyl. She’ll come around and she’ll be wearing lingerie underneath her dress and be like, look at this Dyl.
And we’ll be like No! Dylan: I’m like, I’m with your sister Steph Chantelle: I’m like hands off. You’re my man. Angus: How much of an influence do you think your sister played in getting into the disability space within sex?
Chantelle: Oh, I think that’s a really tricky one. I guess Angus: because subconsciously you might’ve just done it. Chantelle: Yeah, I mean, I’ve just grown up with it, so I guess, um, and also like my parents, I really big givers so they’ve taken care of a lot of people in our lives. Um, and that’s in terms of working and, you know, financially and housing wise, and they’ve just always said, everyone is welcome in our house. So for me, there wasn’t anyone that I have met that I don’t feel like I can be open with and that is not allowed, you know, to be part of my life.
And I think that they taught me that everyone is equal and that we should just be kind and open. Um, and I think, you know, part of that is just growing up with, with my sister and you know, all of her friends and the crazy parties I used to go to. And. Um, you know, I don’t know if you’ve been to intellectually disabled parties, but they’re like so much more fun than able-bodied people who are, you know, not in the intellectually disabled space. So we’ve always just had a really fun upbringing that’s been open.
Um, I guess that meant that when I got into this medical and psychology space, I was a lot more accustomed to the challenges that would be thrown my way. Cause it was just natural for me. Angus: Can you talk about, not obviously, I’m sure there’s, um, uh, and maybe you can’t at all. There’s the confidentiality between yourself and your patients.
I’m not looking for specifics, but can you talk about some of the cases that you work with? So, you know, I, we can understand that people maybe who, I’ve talked about the example of an accident, physical accident, but can you take us through in the disability space, what kind of, what you’ve come across in your years. Chantelle: Yeah, I am. If that, I mean, that ranges. So for a lot of people in the intellectually disabled space, that’s around negotiation, safety, consent, because they are much more vulnerable to abuse and trauma.
And especially, um spousal abuse so I have to be very careful that they know that they’re allowed to say no and that they’re having safe sex as well. Um, you know, and they also do naughty things and send like sexting and all that kind of stuff. So just being part of a team with their caregivers to make sure that they have someone to talk to that’s not their parents or siblings that is able to advise them what’s okay and what’s, you know, maybe a little bit questionable in terms of safety around sex. Um, and then with people in the disabled space that have got physical impairments.
It’s about navigating sexuality and whether that be something that they have always had. So primary disability, um, navigating how to, uh, you know, being in a relationship, how to have sex with your different ability. That’s something that I can help them with.
Obviously, I’ve got experience with it as well. Dylan: You do Chantelle: Um, yeah. Now, you know, I’ve learned to love being with you babe.
Dylan: I’m winking through the podcast Chantelle: Um, but also, you know, if it’s an acquired injury, just being with them on that journey because it’s a lot of grief that people feel, and also it changes their relationship dynamics a lot. Um, there’s a lot of people, uh, who have physical impairments that can’t have relationships. Maybe.
With cerebral palsy. That’s an example of mine that a lot of people in that space really struggle because they deteriorate as they age. And um, you know, they have, people with disabilities often have really erotic minds, so they have really big imaginations. And for me, it’s being that person that they can talk to about that eroticism, about their fantasies, but also maybe helping them find someone that can be part of that fantasy for them.
As well. And that means working with really, um, well educated sex workers as well, and making sure that my patient is safe and that they feel comfortable with the people that they’re with. Um, and also navigating relationships as well, because I, I. Worry sometimes that there are relationships that might be challenging or maybe happening for the wrong reasons.
Essentially. I, I really don’t like it. Dylan: Like catfish style. or Benefits Chantelle: catfish style, you know, benefits, but also, um, pity, pity kind of relationships and, um, care. Care giving relationships where the person’s not in it to be your partner, but to be your caregiver and to have the benefits from that. Maybe a stable household or disability kind of income as well.
So that’s for me to be that sound voice for them to just say, Hey, I see what’s happening. A lot of the time though, if my patient’s happy and they’re safe, that’s something that I’m okay with and I’ll just be with them to make sure they don’t geten advantage of Angus: wow that’s such a huge responsibility. Chantelle: It is huge.
Yeah. Angus: I think we got to play in the sex working space for me. I mean, we have to delve a little bit deeper into that because that would be something that’s actually something I’ve never thought about.
I do remember watching a documentary only as you said it. I do remember watching the documentary of a Dylan: is the correct term sex surrogate as well? Chantelle: There is sex surrogates, but there are different laws in different States in Australia. So um in here.
I mean, I just say sex workers because that’s what they are. Um, and. You know, everyone has a different, um, identity that they put on them for. But for the people, the wonderful people that I work with, they just say, you know what? I’m a sex worker and I’m happy to accommodate Dylan: so they provide opportunities for people with a disability that.
Have been excluded from having their sexual desires met, Chantelle: yep, or that might have changes like a catheter, for example, the, a permanent catheter or, um, you know, different orgasmic abilities or maybe erectile dysfunction or, um, maybe they’ve had, they’ve lost a limb or something like that. So it’s about providing stimulation that is far beyond just penetration and orgasm, which is. What we all tend to focus on in Australia, but that we need to kind of veer away from because it’s pretty boring to just have penetration and we’ll get some every time when you’ve got a whole menu full of sexual activities to do Dylan: Well that was one of the most dangerous things for me growing up is you learn a lot about sex through the internet and pornography or whatever it is, and always look at things and be like, I can’t do that.
I can’t do that. Do I have self-worth? Am I going to be sexually active? How dangerous I guess are those stereotypes, especially for people with disability who will not be able to see themselves or role model or have any understanding what they can do.
Chantelle: Oh, super dangerous. I think they’re just, I think they’re so dangerous for everyone in general, to be honest. Um, you know, I have a lot of young people that we don’t have adequate sex education, and so we turn to porn for a, I guess, a view of what sex is meant to be like, but pornography is not a, it was not designed to be educational. It was designed to be entertaining. Um, and.
That means that a, a lot of young people are going, well, am I meant to be moaning this way? Is my penis meant to be this big? Am I meant to have no pubic hair? Or, you know, I don’t look like these people and I can’t do what they do. And if you include someone who has, um, a disability into that, then there’s nothing they can identify with, apart from, you know, uh, the kind of disabled porn that’s Angus: but it’ll be fettish style stuff as well Chantelle: yeah way too fettishie and just not realistic Dylan: babe haven’t I told you Chantelle: Were you a star?
Dylan: I’ve got a new revenue stream for us. www.ParaplegicPleasure.com. Chantelle: for when we’re falling on hard times. Angus: now hang on Chantelle did you know Dylan: AmputationDomination.com Chantelle: Am I part of this plan?
Angus: In all seriousness. Did you know that they are two websites or Dylan at one time wanted to buy? Chantelle: I did know that. I think he did register them.
Didn’t you? Dylan: no, on the board, didn’t actually pay for it, but it was going to register. Angus: Oh God. Dylan: Still there if you want to do it, if any, any amputees listening Amputation Domination is still there. Angus: So in the role of sex workers, do you find that, cause I’m going back to this documentary, I briefly referenced it before.
It was a father who had a son who. Wasn’t going to be able to get, find somebody who was going to be able to fulfill his needs sexually. And so he took him to a sex worker on his request only sons requests.
Yes. At a very appropriate age. Yeah.
Do you find that some parents come to you with those sorts of requests? Um, to say, look, you know, I want my child to live a full life and a full life involves sex in whatever form that is. Do you find you have parents who are kind of leading you into finding appropriate safe spaces for them? Chantelle: Yeah, I would say that a lot of the work that I do with parents would probably be on the pro bono side.
It’s just providing advice on the whim. I do a lot of pro bono work because not everyone can afford to see a sexologist. Um, and, and a lot of my patients that are in the disabled space are on NDIS or, um, you know, uh, government funding.
Yeah. And so they can’t afford to be seeing me, but, um, I feel like it’s a duty of mine and I’m the only one that they can to talk about this, parents would send me a lot of DMs on my social media, um, and just say, you know, who would you recommend? And I’ll just say, you know what, I, it depends on where you live or, you know, I know that this person’s really good, or this, uh, I guess location. Um. But yeah, sometimes I get parents coming in with their child and saying, how do we talk about this and how do we navigate this and who can I bring them to?
And that’s, you know, such a pleasure that they’ve come to me and being so open. Angus: Yeah. God, that’s such a great feeling that someone feels so comfortable to come to you with that. Dylan: Now I’m easily in their happiest part of my life that I’ve ever had. I’m very happy.
I’m going a beautifu relationship with you Chantelle and I hope you feel the same way. Chantelle: a million percent Dylan: It’s a, I’m so glad I met you. You changed my life from the moment that I did.
However, I get asked this question a lot by people, and when I first got with you, we became intimate. It was pretty much for me like having a. How do I describe it? Like I felt like the pressure to perform because you are like the Roger Federer of your industry. Angus: You’re the Rolls Royce of sex, Dylan: right? So for me Angus: you’re the MVP Dylan: for me and Angus, everyone I ask goes mate, I mean, you are the GOAT of what you do.
You know everything. Angus: Well so we imagine Chantelle: it’s True, I’ve had a lot of practice Dylan: but I’ve got to say on the flip side, you’d never been with somebody with a disability in a wheelchair, like me. How was it for you? Uh, having sex with someone with a disability for the first time.
Chantelle: I’ve never felt butterflies like that before. Wow I was so nervous, but so excited at the same time to see how it would work, what was going to be different. And of course, you know, I think in my mind. This is the healthiest and most pleasurable sex that I’ve ever had because it is just so expansive and it is so erotic and it is so much beyond the mainstream view of what sexuality is meant to be.
So I was so excited because I knew it would be really fulfilling for me, and it’s paid off and it’s gotten better and better. And I think we’ve both brought things into each other’s sexual lives that have. Not being imaginable, um, and that have improved us as sexual beings as well.
And that’s all I aim for, my own personal life is to be able to improve myself as a person every day. But also I want to be having sex until I’m fucking dead. So, um, yeah. Dylan: Hey get ready Chantelle: So that means, you know, going with the ebbs and flows of that. And.
Being expansive and trying new things and you, um, luckily have a really erotic mind like my own. So we’ve been able to work on that really well together. Dylan: And I think one of the things that we’ve taught each other that I’ve told myself over the years, I guess, and thanks for being so open to talking about this, cause I think it’s going to help a lot of people and, but you can have sex in whatever way.
You can have sex, it doesn’t matter you have a disability or not. You know what I mean? In terms of the features that you have, the things you can perform, the way that you can do it. They’re, they’re a multitude of things that you can do that count as sex and, and you’ll teach them every day. It might even be like a massage, you know what I mean?
So for people with other higher level disabilities, lower level disability. And I have a body person who is in love with someone with a disability, but thinks they won’t be able to do it. I mean, there’s a wide range of things that can be done. Chantelle: Yeah, exactly.
I mean, that just comes down to also like erogenous zones. And if you think about it, our biggest sexual organ is our brain. So the biggest organ on our body is the skin. The biggest sexual organ is the brain.
And those two are. Really, really important in terms of sexuality in general, but definitely in the disabled community, to be able to stimulate different erogenous zones that can bring on orgasmic experiences that are not, um, you know, genitalia or, or erogenous. zones is such an exciting thing. And I just implore anyone able bodied or not to. Explore and expand and try out different parts of the body and try different things and introduce toys.
I’m really lucky that I have support from, um, Love Honey who is one of my sponsors. And they are always, always saying to me, what can I provide you for your patients? What can I provide you for yourself? What, um, can we improve on?
And I have the luxury of being able to work with them in terms of designing toys and designing things that would be helpful for the disabled community. Angus: Do you have like a link of something specific anywhere that is for maybe disabilities Dylan: the Chantie 5000 Chantelle: Chantie banger 5000 Angus: do you have a, I mean it was maybe not a link specific to disabilities or, I mean certainly recommendations you would have. Chantelle: We’re doing some content around that in the next couple of weeks, but also that’s something that I’m working on. Uh, with, um, their head office for Love Honey Australia.
And we will hopefully be providing a really good space at, um, you know, I’m happy to take suggestions or from anyone in the disabled community on what you want in there, but there are really great things like wedges for under the hip. To prop the pelvis up, you know, different types of toys with long handles or short handles to be able to reach erogenous zones. Um, different types of stimulation pressure.
So if it’s hard to feel stimulation in a certain area, we can get one that has a lot more simulation, so you’re able to feel it better. And then things you know that are just fun, like nipple clamps and skin teasers and ticklers and you know, things that hurt and things that don’t. Dylan: It’s also orgasmic for everyone is you saying the word erogenous zones. Can I get it one more time? Chantelle: Erogenous zones.
Do I have an erotic voice. Angus: You do. Let me play devil’s advocate for a second.
We’ve got the Rolls Royce of sex Chantelle Otten, we’ve got you know, a sexologist, someone who lives in breeds this world, has all the equipment at hand, Dylan: extremely talented and incredibly beautiful. Angus: All of the, all of the things you’ve got Dylan Alcott. You’ve got incredibly good looking man for one. You’ve also got a guy who is extroverted, extroverted, you know, talented in his own right.
It’s a bit, it’s like. What about for somebody who doesn’t have any of these things? I mean, they’re listening to you guys and you’re going, okay, well, you’ve got a beautiful couple having great sex. Fantastic. What about me?
Who maybe doesn’t have, you know, aesthetic good looks perpetuated by culture and what’s some advice for people who don’t have the sexual confidence yet to come forward with their partner or someone they’re interested in? Chantelle: Yeah, I think that’s a good question and maybe we can do that too, together Dylan, because I think before me, there were times in your life that I don’t think you thought you would get this kind of relationship Dylan: times or the whole time pretty much. And it was something that I struggled with the most probably Angus growing up was, it was probably the only thing I was self conscious about really.
Once I got over the fact that I was getting bullied and things, because you do feel lesser than than an everybody person, you know, you can do sometimes do less things if you look at it in the. I guess lens of normality in terms of what is normal. But if you take that away and you just think about all the different things you can do and the different ways and the different erogenous zones and the different way you can perform, there’s a lots of things that you can do.
Um, I know from having a disability how hard it can be, and I really sympathize with the disabled community because they will see someone they have a crush on. They will say someone they loved, I will get that butterfly feeling and they’ll think it won’t be reciprocated, which it might not be. Um, but I know Angus: you don’t think that people sometimes put themselves out enough to find wheather it is Dylan: that’s exactly whatI was going to say. Because of that reason. That makes it hard though, man.
Yeah. Because I get shut down a lot. Chantelle: Yeah. But I have to also probably give you a bit of insight into yourself.
You had very low confidence when you were younger, and confidence isn’t something that you’re born with or something that you have to create. And you decided that you want to, well, you want it to have a big life and you want it to have, you know, someone in it. That would be. Good for you. If I was a bad person, it doesn’t even matter what I look like.
I wouldn’t be part of your life. Dylan: Exactly right. 100%. And I think people with a disability get fatigue because they constantly told us, put yourself out there.
Just put yourself out there. Just put yourself, get out there. But it’s true. You know what I mean?
It works. And the best way to change people’s perceptions is who lived experience. And, um, you’d be shocked. And I, uh, you know, if you go up to people and ask them, uh, on a date, they might say yes, there’s a, there’s a really.
Great book of a young guy with a disability and he’s books called people think my girlfriend’s my carer because she is pretty good. She’s looking and he’s an electric wheelchair and constantly people think it’s his carer because we as a society don’t assume that people the disability. Can have girlfriends or boyfriends do it, or husbands or wives or whatever it is, doing normal things. And I think that’s why these conversations are important, um, to do so.
And I think the other part of that question Angus is the flip it, what’s your advice should tell to people who are able bodied who might see someone with a disability. I think they cute do and think they can’t go up and ask questions. or think they can’t do things or they think it might be weird for them to go up and start, I guess an intimate relationship. Angus: You started the conversation yourself. Chantelle: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I pursued you so Dylan: So gald you did Chantelle: I clawed my way into your life Angus: pretty easy to catch up to him, Chantelle: you know? I was like, I mean, I saw you and I fell in love with you, so I am.
That just came from energy. It doesn’t, it wasn’t about what you look like or I didn’t actually know who you were. So when we met, so it was kind of nice to feel that energy.
But I would say that if you are able bodied and you see someone that has a disability and you like them, don’t worry about the future and don’t listen to anyone else. Just do what is right for you. Because even myself, I’ve had advice. Things will be hard for you and Dylan in the future. There are things that he won’t be able to do.
Do I care? Am I allowed to swear? Do I give a fuck? Absolutely not because I can do so much stuff by myself and I can do much more.
When I’m with Dylan and the fact is, I’m with Dylan because of how he treats me, not because of who he is, but the support that he provides me from a mental health point of view, the opportunities he gives me in terms of my life and the security I have for the future that I want from my family. And. If you meet someone that has a disability and you love everything about them, but you’re worried about their disability, have those chats with the person. Open up, ask the questions.
When I first got with Dylan, I said, is there anything I have to worry about in terms of your longevity, in terms of the fact that your spine is going to change as you get older in terms of the fact that you know, you won’t be able to hold our children all the time. Um, when we have them, and he just said, well, we’ll figure that out together. And that’s the point.
You can’t find the answers to that unless you’re with the person and you can ask them what they can do and not focus on what they can’t do, because there’s a lot of support out there, um, to be able to get where you need to go and to be able to be with someone with a disability. Dylan: In case my face changes, I’m like, there’s Botox for that. Chantelle: I’ve got the hookups for you Angus: let’s backtrack though to the question I did ask before that what some of the advice that you do give those people with that, with the confidence that Dylan doesn’t have, um, when they come and sit on your, I’m imagining couch, um, and ask the questions or maybe in their own seats. Chantelle: In the chairs.
Yeah, they don’t often bring their chairs. I just say you, you can’t say in the position that you’re in. The only way to get to anywhere in life is to move forward. Whether that be rolling forward or stepping forward or whatever.
Angus: Hello everybody, and welcome to ListenABLE thanks so much for tuning in and it’s going to be an episode that’s a little bit different this week Dylan Dylan: yeah, this is the first time we’re profiling someone that doesn’t have a disability, but when we launched this podcast, we were going to talk about everything. Nothing is off limits, and we’re going to talk to people, you know, parents of people with disabilities, they won’t have disabilities themselves. We’re going to talk about assistive technology, so like whys that we can help maybe things about funding schemes, government, we’re going to go really broad here Angus: I’d love to get, you know, the person who runs a disability scheme in Australia in here.
With questions from people with disability on how they can make Australia a more inclusive society Dylan: yeah exactly Angus: it doesn’t necessarily have to be disabled people in their stories. We’re trying to make people all across the world more learned on accessibility. Dylan: Yeah, exactly right. But also the ways that people can help. And, and obviously for a lot of people with disability, they’re often left out of social circles, um, which is really tough.
And the most intimate of social circles, you know, your partner relationships as something that’s often. People with disability are often left by the wayside. And could you imagine, I mean, Angus, you’re in a happy relationship how that that’d be like to never have that opportunity Angus: well love sex, romance, intimacy seems to be a topic that not only do people want to know, even the disabled community want to know about it from other people, hear their stories, but it seems to be a recurring theme of question. People who don’t feel themselves can be loved.
Dylan: Yeah. And I was like, Hmm. Who can we get on to talk about this?
Angus: Maybe the person who loves you the most outside your family. Dylan: Yeah. And it happens to also be one of the most learned people on this topic that we can find, you know, in this country, if not around the world.
Angus: can’t wait to meet this person Dylan: not just saying that, because I love her with all my heart. Angus: Let’s meet our next guest. Chantelle: Hi, my name’s Chantelle Otten.
I am Dylan’s partner and a psycho sexologist working with a lot of people in the disabled community. Dylan: Beautiful hey Chantelle great to met you. Not that we know each other that well Angus: I said at the start, let’s meet our guests, but of course we have all met.
You are the partner of Dylan, someone who he referenced in the first episode of ListenABLE the love of his life. Chantelle: yes It’s me Angus: and there are so many things that, you’re able bodied? There are so many things that people want to know about. Not necessarily, I mean, yes, your relationship in general, but also people need to know what you do in this space because once they get past the fact that.
Yeah, I’m sure you chat to couples and their relationships and their sex, but there’s so much more to your role and you as a person. It’s really interesting I can’t wait for people to hear this episode. Dylan: So for people that don’t know much about what a psycho sexologist is. I know when we met, like I didn’t know too much about it either.
I was just very excited when some Chantelle Otten Sexologist sent me an Instagram. I was like, ‘Hey how you going’ can you explain what that means? Chantelle: Yeah. So I am someone who’s trained in psychology, and then I’ve done my science medicine degree specializing in sexual medicine, and I help anyone who has a sexual concern or query or worry around sexuality.
And that includes people with different types of abilities, medical conditions, um, mental health conditions as well. I run the sexual medicine clinic at a private hospital in . Melbourne, Australia, and I also have the largest psycho sexology practice in Australia. So I have quite a number of sexologists who work for me, and we all specialize in different things. Uh, and my favorite is the most complicated things.
Angus: You also have an incredible voice I mean you have a beautiful voice. Dylan: ASMR is that what it’s called? Angus: Oh yeah, ASMR, yeah Dylan: hey I hear it. Every night, I’m the lucky spending the world. Angus: God, you’ve got a great voice, Chantie Chantelle: Thank you Dylan: especially with the mic’s on.
Now I think there is a misconception about. Sexology, that it’s lava lamps and carpet and like, you know, talk about Angus: spinning circle beds Dylan: or like whatever it is. Chantelle: Could be, but it’s not. Dylan: Yeah, exactly right. I think, I mean.
The work that you do, the work you do really helps a lot of people of all different, as you said, disability but also illnesses. So like what kind of like people come in and see you? Chantelle: Yeah. So we see individuals and couples, uh, from people who are of all types of sexual orientations and gender identities.
And I specialize mainly in seeing people with medical conditions such as, um, you know. People who are on oncology ward. So cancer people in different medications, different life stages as well.
Um, and then I also see people who are, uh, you know, struggling with different kinds of mental health conditions, but people after accidents, you know, that have, um, impaired them in some way, or people who are just adjusting to the new me. If something’s happened within their body. Um, or you know, within their life that’s meant that they can’t function in the way that they used to function sexually. Um, and also from a self esteem level, then that’s my job to really be there and, you know, be hand in hand with them on this journey to making sure that they have a sexually satisfying life and that they are able to be out in the community. And find meaningful relationships with people.
Um, and I love it. So I’m very much, uh, involved with the people that come and see me and, you know, sex is sometimes the last thing that we speak about in our sessions, a lot of the time, it’s really about building up their confidence. And making sure that they don’t feel like they’re alone, because a lot of people feel like they the only one that’s struggling with that problem at that time, and that they’re not normal but realistically, you know, there’s hundreds if not thousands of people that are also going through very similar things. Angus: Uh, Dylan and yourself started dating around the same time that Emily and I did.
And so, uh, I was discovering what your role entailed, um, at the same time that Dylan was. So when Dylan came in, those first initial weeks of you dating, he’s like, you won’t believe what my girlfriend Chanties does. And I’m like, and I’m sure lot of people, when they hear sexologist, they go, okay, you charge $200 bucks an hour you get couples who are unhappy and they come in, they sit down the leather couch and you told them, you know, do this, do that, go home. And then when Dylan told me about some of the stuff you’ve done in oncology wards, he was telling me about potential patients that have, have maybe become paraplegic and now their penis doesn’t work. And it’s your job to tell them what sex means for them.
My whole, it’s like someone opened up the curtain to a lifestyle I’d never thought about. It’s such an important role because sex, as we’ve learned in this podcast. Is so important to not only able body people like myself,but to everyone. Chantelle: Yeah.
Everyone deserves a sexually satisfying life. Dylan: I’ve got one! Chantelle: Yeah, me too. Dylan: Yey!.
Chantelle: What a surprise. I think it’s interesting. You’ll probably know more about that than I do because I’m just living my life and doing my job. So you get to see it from an outsiders perspective Dyl Dylan: now, before I came into your life though, um, you were touched by disability.
Well before me. Can you explain? Chantelle: Yeah, so I come from a family where there are four children, and my older sister is 11 months older than me. Her name’s Stephanie, and we were both born in December. We used to think we were twins, but that changed when we were younger, when she started going to a specialist school because she.
Was born with a condition called gastro thesis, which means that your intestines your stomach is on the outside of your body when you’re born. And she had lack of oxygen during her operation to put that inside her body so she has a big scar from the bottom of her chest down to her pelvic region. We call it her zipper cause she doesn’t have a belly button.
Um, and she was. Uh, I guess my parents didn’t realize that she had an intellectual disability until we were in prep together. And then we kind of started realizing that she did things a lot differently. She is an extremely intelligent person.
Um, and she is also married to an intellectually disabled man. Um, and they, who is, who has a brother who’s also intellectually disabled. So I’ve grown up in a community where. I’ve known a lot about disability, but I think prior to you Dyl, I didn’t know a huge amount about physical disability.
Apart from, you know, my patients and people that were in my community, I was very much involved in the intellectual disabled community. You know, since I was really, really young. Dylan: One of the things that I loved most about joining your family and was the way that your family integrated Steph and chip into.
Their lives, but also enable them to be independent so they don’t live at home and they’re not like babysat as such. They live independently. Can you explain how it works?
Chantelle: Yeah, so they live in an apartment next door to my family. Um, my parents, uh, own the apartment and they are, you know, they love their independence, but they also love being connected. I would say my brother-in-law loves coming over a lot more than my sister does. If it was her choice, she would stay at home and watch movies all day long.
Um, but they both work full time and they also volunteer. So, um, chipy, my brother-in-law, he works at a supermarket and you know is in customer service and my sister works in a workplace for intellectually disabled adults and she does like packaging and she kind of wins awards for me and like the best packager and all that kind of stuff. And she, uh, yeah, she does volunteer work as well.
She has been fired from a few volunteer roles. Dylan: Aw she’s a diva. Chantelle: She is such a diva, Dylan: she gets what she wants Chantelle: you know what.
Dylan: Hey like a sister. No. Angus: Runs in the family Chantelle: she just, every time we have to wash the dishes after family dinner, Steph just conveniently needs to go to the bathroom Angus: clever Dylan: so do I. We both use our disability to get out of it Angus: Dylan can’t reach the sink apparently Chantelle: yeah. We have a theory in my family that she’s been faking it for 30 years. Angus: It’s just convenient when she needs it to be convenient Chantelle: yeah.
She’s like way smarter than all of us Dylan: That’s so good Angus: now. Dylan: Can I just ask one question before we move on Angus: of course Dylan: do they have sex with eachother Chantelle: yeah. So they have a really active sex life from our knowledge. And you would know from family dinner that they love to chat about it. Um, Steph told me Dylan: the reason we’re able to talk about this like, we would not normally ask about their sex lives, but they openly bring it up Chantelle: thye are like obsessed with talking about their sex lives and she will, my sister can’t read or write, but she uses Siri to like talk and send messages and she’ll accidentally send me dirty texts that she’s sending to my brother in law sometimes and she’ll be like, love you sexy man.
And then she’ll be like, whoops that was for Chip but she’s so meant to send it to me just so I’d know. She’ll say like, she’s like, Oh, we go through a bottle of lube a week and I don’t know what they’re doing. Like if they’re putting it on toast, but we just have them do it.
Dylan: I’ll be a touch scared if I get that text one day. Chantelle: She’s pretty open, I mean, she’s very flirtatious with you Dyl. She’ll come around and she’ll be wearing lingerie underneath her dress and be like, look at this Dyl.
And we’ll be like No! Dylan: I’m like, I’m with your sister Steph Chantelle: I’m like hands off. You’re my man. Angus: How much of an influence do you think your sister played in getting into the disability space within sex?
Chantelle: Oh, I think that’s a really tricky one. I guess Angus: because subconsciously you might’ve just done it. Chantelle: Yeah, I mean, I’ve just grown up with it, so I guess, um, and also like my parents, I really big givers so they’ve taken care of a lot of people in our lives. Um, and that’s in terms of working and, you know, financially and housing wise, and they’ve just always said, everyone is welcome in our house. So for me, there wasn’t anyone that I have met that I don’t feel like I can be open with and that is not allowed, you know, to be part of my life.
And I think that they taught me that everyone is equal and that we should just be kind and open. Um, and I think, you know, part of that is just growing up with, with my sister and you know, all of her friends and the crazy parties I used to go to. And. Um, you know, I don’t know if you’ve been to intellectually disabled parties, but they’re like so much more fun than able-bodied people who are, you know, not in the intellectually disabled space. So we’ve always just had a really fun upbringing that’s been open.
Um, I guess that meant that when I got into this medical and psychology space, I was a lot more accustomed to the challenges that would be thrown my way. Cause it was just natural for me. Angus: Can you talk about, not obviously, I’m sure there’s, um, uh, and maybe you can’t at all. There’s the confidentiality between yourself and your patients.
I’m not looking for specifics, but can you talk about some of the cases that you work with? So, you know, I, we can understand that people maybe who, I’ve talked about the example of an accident, physical accident, but can you take us through in the disability space, what kind of, what you’ve come across in your years. Chantelle: Yeah, I am. If that, I mean, that ranges. So for a lot of people in the intellectually disabled space, that’s around negotiation, safety, consent, because they are much more vulnerable to abuse and trauma.
And especially, um spousal abuse so I have to be very careful that they know that they’re allowed to say no and that they’re having safe sex as well. Um, you know, and they also do naughty things and send like sexting and all that kind of stuff. So just being part of a team with their caregivers to make sure that they have someone to talk to that’s not their parents or siblings that is able to advise them what’s okay and what’s, you know, maybe a little bit questionable in terms of safety around sex. Um, and then with people in the disabled space that have got physical impairments.
It’s about navigating sexuality and whether that be something that they have always had. So primary disability, um, navigating how to, uh, you know, being in a relationship, how to have sex with your different ability. That’s something that I can help them with.
Obviously, I’ve got experience with it as well. Dylan: You do Chantelle: Um, yeah. Now, you know, I’ve learned to love being with you babe.
Dylan: I’m winking through the podcast Chantelle: Um, but also, you know, if it’s an acquired injury, just being with them on that journey because it’s a lot of grief that people feel, and also it changes their relationship dynamics a lot. Um, there’s a lot of people, uh, who have physical impairments that can’t have relationships. Maybe.
With cerebral palsy. That’s an example of mine that a lot of people in that space really struggle because they deteriorate as they age. And um, you know, they have, people with disabilities often have really erotic minds, so they have really big imaginations. And for me, it’s being that person that they can talk to about that eroticism, about their fantasies, but also maybe helping them find someone that can be part of that fantasy for them.
As well. And that means working with really, um, well educated sex workers as well, and making sure that my patient is safe and that they feel comfortable with the people that they’re with. Um, and also navigating relationships as well, because I, I. Worry sometimes that there are relationships that might be challenging or maybe happening for the wrong reasons.
Essentially. I, I really don’t like it. Dylan: Like catfish style. or Benefits Chantelle: catfish style, you know, benefits, but also, um, pity, pity kind of relationships and, um, care. Care giving relationships where the person’s not in it to be your partner, but to be your caregiver and to have the benefits from that. Maybe a stable household or disability kind of income as well.
So that’s for me to be that sound voice for them to just say, Hey, I see what’s happening. A lot of the time though, if my patient’s happy and they’re safe, that’s something that I’m okay with and I’ll just be with them to make sure they don’t geten advantage of Angus: wow that’s such a huge responsibility. Chantelle: It is huge.
Yeah. Angus: I think we got to play in the sex working space for me. I mean, we have to delve a little bit deeper into that because that would be something that’s actually something I’ve never thought about.
I do remember watching a documentary only as you said it. I do remember watching the documentary of a Dylan: is the correct term sex surrogate as well? Chantelle: There is sex surrogates, but there are different laws in different States in Australia. So um in here.
I mean, I just say sex workers because that’s what they are. Um, and. You know, everyone has a different, um, identity that they put on them for. But for the people, the wonderful people that I work with, they just say, you know what? I’m a sex worker and I’m happy to accommodate Dylan: so they provide opportunities for people with a disability that.
Have been excluded from having their sexual desires met, Chantelle: yep, or that might have changes like a catheter, for example, the, a permanent catheter or, um, you know, different orgasmic abilities or maybe erectile dysfunction or, um, maybe they’ve had, they’ve lost a limb or something like that. So it’s about providing stimulation that is far beyond just penetration and orgasm, which is. What we all tend to focus on in Australia, but that we need to kind of veer away from because it’s pretty boring to just have penetration and we’ll get some every time when you’ve got a whole menu full of sexual activities to do Dylan: Well that was one of the most dangerous things for me growing up is you learn a lot about sex through the internet and pornography or whatever it is, and always look at things and be like, I can’t do that.
I can’t do that. Do I have self-worth? Am I going to be sexually active? How dangerous I guess are those stereotypes, especially for people with disability who will not be able to see themselves or role model or have any understanding what they can do.
Chantelle: Oh, super dangerous. I think they’re just, I think they’re so dangerous for everyone in general, to be honest. Um, you know, I have a lot of young people that we don’t have adequate sex education, and so we turn to porn for a, I guess, a view of what sex is meant to be like, but pornography is not a, it was not designed to be educational. It was designed to be entertaining. Um, and.
That means that a, a lot of young people are going, well, am I meant to be moaning this way? Is my penis meant to be this big? Am I meant to have no pubic hair? Or, you know, I don’t look like these people and I can’t do what they do. And if you include someone who has, um, a disability into that, then there’s nothing they can identify with, apart from, you know, uh, the kind of disabled porn that’s Angus: but it’ll be fettish style stuff as well Chantelle: yeah way too fettishie and just not realistic Dylan: babe haven’t I told you Chantelle: Were you a star?
Dylan: I’ve got a new revenue stream for us. www.ParaplegicPleasure.com. Chantelle: for when we’re falling on hard times. Angus: now hang on Chantelle did you know Dylan: AmputationDomination.com Chantelle: Am I part of this plan?
Angus: In all seriousness. Did you know that they are two websites or Dylan at one time wanted to buy? Chantelle: I did know that. I think he did register them.
Didn’t you? Dylan: no, on the board, didn’t actually pay for it, but it was going to register. Angus: Oh God. Dylan: Still there if you want to do it, if any, any amputees listening Amputation Domination is still there. Angus: So in the role of sex workers, do you find that, cause I’m going back to this documentary, I briefly referenced it before.
It was a father who had a son who. Wasn’t going to be able to get, find somebody who was going to be able to fulfill his needs sexually. And so he took him to a sex worker on his request only sons requests.
Yes. At a very appropriate age. Yeah.
Do you find that some parents come to you with those sorts of requests? Um, to say, look, you know, I want my child to live a full life and a full life involves sex in whatever form that is. Do you find you have parents who are kind of leading you into finding appropriate safe spaces for them? Chantelle: Yeah, I would say that a lot of the work that I do with parents would probably be on the pro bono side.
It’s just providing advice on the whim. I do a lot of pro bono work because not everyone can afford to see a sexologist. Um, and, and a lot of my patients that are in the disabled space are on NDIS or, um, you know, uh, government funding.
Yeah. And so they can’t afford to be seeing me, but, um, I feel like it’s a duty of mine and I’m the only one that they can to talk about this, parents would send me a lot of DMs on my social media, um, and just say, you know, who would you recommend? And I’ll just say, you know what, I, it depends on where you live or, you know, I know that this person’s really good, or this, uh, I guess location. Um. But yeah, sometimes I get parents coming in with their child and saying, how do we talk about this and how do we navigate this and who can I bring them to?
And that’s, you know, such a pleasure that they’ve come to me and being so open. Angus: Yeah. God, that’s such a great feeling that someone feels so comfortable to come to you with that. Dylan: Now I’m easily in their happiest part of my life that I’ve ever had. I’m very happy.
I’m going a beautifu relationship with you Chantelle and I hope you feel the same way. Chantelle: a million percent Dylan: It’s a, I’m so glad I met you. You changed my life from the moment that I did.
However, I get asked this question a lot by people, and when I first got with you, we became intimate. It was pretty much for me like having a. How do I describe it? Like I felt like the pressure to perform because you are like the Roger Federer of your industry. Angus: You’re the Rolls Royce of sex, Dylan: right? So for me Angus: you’re the MVP Dylan: for me and Angus, everyone I ask goes mate, I mean, you are the GOAT of what you do.
You know everything. Angus: Well so we imagine Chantelle: it’s True, I’ve had a lot of practice Dylan: but I’ve got to say on the flip side, you’d never been with somebody with a disability in a wheelchair, like me. How was it for you? Uh, having sex with someone with a disability for the first time.
Chantelle: I’ve never felt butterflies like that before. Wow I was so nervous, but so excited at the same time to see how it would work, what was going to be different. And of course, you know, I think in my mind. This is the healthiest and most pleasurable sex that I’ve ever had because it is just so expansive and it is so erotic and it is so much beyond the mainstream view of what sexuality is meant to be.
So I was so excited because I knew it would be really fulfilling for me, and it’s paid off and it’s gotten better and better. And I think we’ve both brought things into each other’s sexual lives that have. Not being imaginable, um, and that have improved us as sexual beings as well.
And that’s all I aim for, my own personal life is to be able to improve myself as a person every day. But also I want to be having sex until I’m fucking dead. So, um, yeah. Dylan: Hey get ready Chantelle: So that means, you know, going with the ebbs and flows of that. And.
Being expansive and trying new things and you, um, luckily have a really erotic mind like my own. So we’ve been able to work on that really well together. Dylan: And I think one of the things that we’ve taught each other that I’ve told myself over the years, I guess, and thanks for being so open to talking about this, cause I think it’s going to help a lot of people and, but you can have sex in whatever way.
You can have sex, it doesn’t matter you have a disability or not. You know what I mean? In terms of the features that you have, the things you can perform, the way that you can do it. They’re, they’re a multitude of things that you can do that count as sex and, and you’ll teach them every day. It might even be like a massage, you know what I mean?
So for people with other higher level disabilities, lower level disability. And I have a body person who is in love with someone with a disability, but thinks they won’t be able to do it. I mean, there’s a wide range of things that can be done. Chantelle: Yeah, exactly.
I mean, that just comes down to also like erogenous zones. And if you think about it, our biggest sexual organ is our brain. So the biggest organ on our body is the skin. The biggest sexual organ is the brain.
And those two are. Really, really important in terms of sexuality in general, but definitely in the disabled community, to be able to stimulate different erogenous zones that can bring on orgasmic experiences that are not, um, you know, genitalia or, or erogenous. zones is such an exciting thing. And I just implore anyone able bodied or not to. Explore and expand and try out different parts of the body and try different things and introduce toys.
I’m really lucky that I have support from, um, Love Honey who is one of my sponsors. And they are always, always saying to me, what can I provide you for your patients? What can I provide you for yourself? What, um, can we improve on?
And I have the luxury of being able to work with them in terms of designing toys and designing things that would be helpful for the disabled community. Angus: Do you have like a link of something specific anywhere that is for maybe disabilities Dylan: the Chantie 5000 Chantelle: Chantie banger 5000 Angus: do you have a, I mean it was maybe not a link specific to disabilities or, I mean certainly recommendations you would have. Chantelle: We’re doing some content around that in the next couple of weeks, but also that’s something that I’m working on. Uh, with, um, their head office for Love Honey Australia.
And we will hopefully be providing a really good space at, um, you know, I’m happy to take suggestions or from anyone in the disabled community on what you want in there, but there are really great things like wedges for under the hip. To prop the pelvis up, you know, different types of toys with long handles or short handles to be able to reach erogenous zones. Um, different types of stimulation pressure.
So if it’s hard to feel stimulation in a certain area, we can get one that has a lot more simulation, so you’re able to feel it better. And then things you know that are just fun, like nipple clamps and skin teasers and ticklers and you know, things that hurt and things that don’t. Dylan: It’s also orgasmic for everyone is you saying the word erogenous zones. Can I get it one more time? Chantelle: Erogenous zones.
Do I have an erotic voice. Angus: You do. Let me play devil’s advocate for a second.
We’ve got the Rolls Royce of sex Chantelle Otten, we’ve got you know, a sexologist, someone who lives in breeds this world, has all the equipment at hand, Dylan: extremely talented and incredibly beautiful. Angus: All of the, all of the things you’ve got Dylan Alcott. You’ve got incredibly good looking man for one. You’ve also got a guy who is extroverted, extroverted, you know, talented in his own right.
It’s a bit, it’s like. What about for somebody who doesn’t have any of these things? I mean, they’re listening to you guys and you’re going, okay, well, you’ve got a beautiful couple having great sex. Fantastic. What about me?
Who maybe doesn’t have, you know, aesthetic good looks perpetuated by culture and what’s some advice for people who don’t have the sexual confidence yet to come forward with their partner or someone they’re interested in? Chantelle: Yeah, I think that’s a good question and maybe we can do that too, together Dylan, because I think before me, there were times in your life that I don’t think you thought you would get this kind of relationship Dylan: times or the whole time pretty much. And it was something that I struggled with the most probably Angus growing up was, it was probably the only thing I was self conscious about really.
Once I got over the fact that I was getting bullied and things, because you do feel lesser than than an everybody person, you know, you can do sometimes do less things if you look at it in the. I guess lens of normality in terms of what is normal. But if you take that away and you just think about all the different things you can do and the different ways and the different erogenous zones and the different way you can perform, there’s a lots of things that you can do.
Um, I know from having a disability how hard it can be, and I really sympathize with the disabled community because they will see someone they have a crush on. They will say someone they loved, I will get that butterfly feeling and they’ll think it won’t be reciprocated, which it might not be. Um, but I know Angus: you don’t think that people sometimes put themselves out enough to find wheather it is Dylan: that’s exactly whatI was going to say. Because of that reason. That makes it hard though, man.
Yeah. Because I get shut down a lot. Chantelle: Yeah. But I have to also probably give you a bit of insight into yourself.
You had very low confidence when you were younger, and confidence isn’t something that you’re born with or something that you have to create. And you decided that you want to, well, you want it to have a big life and you want it to have, you know, someone in it. That would be. Good for you. If I was a bad person, it doesn’t even matter what I look like.
I wouldn’t be part of your life. Dylan: Exactly right. 100%. And I think people with a disability get fatigue because they constantly told us, put yourself out there.
Just put yourself out there. Just put yourself, get out there. But it’s true. You know what I mean?
It works. And the best way to change people’s perceptions is who lived experience. And, um, you’d be shocked. And I, uh, you know, if you go up to people and ask them, uh, on a date, they might say yes, there’s a, there’s a really.
Great book of a young guy with a disability and he’s books called people think my girlfriend’s my carer because she is pretty good. She’s looking and he’s an electric wheelchair and constantly people think it’s his carer because we as a society don’t assume that people the disability. Can have girlfriends or boyfriends do it, or husbands or wives or whatever it is, doing normal things. And I think that’s why these conversations are important, um, to do so.
And I think the other part of that question Angus is the flip it, what’s your advice should tell to people who are able bodied who might see someone with a disability. I think they cute do and think they can’t go up and ask questions. or think they can’t do things or they think it might be weird for them to go up and start, I guess an intimate relationship. Angus: You started the conversation yourself. Chantelle: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I pursued you so Dylan: So gald you did Chantelle: I clawed my way into your life Angus: pretty easy to catch up to him, Chantelle: you know? I was like, I mean, I saw you and I fell in love with you, so I am.
That just came from energy. It doesn’t, it wasn’t about what you look like or I didn’t actually know who you were. So when we met, so it was kind of nice to feel that energy.
But I would say that if you are able bodied and you see someone that has a disability and you like them, don’t worry about the future and don’t listen to anyone else. Just do what is right for you. Because even myself, I’ve had advice. Things will be hard for you and Dylan in the future. There are things that he won’t be able to do.
Do I care? Am I allowed to swear? Do I give a fuck? Absolutely not because I can do so much stuff by myself and I can do much more.
When I’m with Dylan and the fact is, I’m with Dylan because of how he treats me, not because of who he is, but the support that he provides me from a mental health point of view, the opportunities he gives me in terms of my life and the security I have for the future that I want from my family. And. If you meet someone that has a disability and you love everything about them, but you’re worried about their disability, have those chats with the person. Open up, ask the questions.
When I first got with Dylan, I said, is there anything I have to worry about in terms of your longevity, in terms of the fact that your spine is going to change as you get older in terms of the fact that you know, you won’t be able to hold our children all the time. Um, when we have them, and he just said, well, we’ll figure that out together. And that’s the point.
You can’t find the answers to that unless you’re with the person and you can ask them what they can do and not focus on what they can’t do, because there’s a lot of support out there, um, to be able to get where you need to go and to be able to be with someone with a disability. Dylan: In case my face changes, I’m like, there’s Botox for that. Chantelle: I’ve got the hookups for you Angus: let’s backtrack though to the question I did ask before that what some of the advice that you do give those people with that, with the confidence that Dylan doesn’t have, um, when they come and sit on your, I’m imagining couch, um, and ask the questions or maybe in their own seats. Chantelle: In the chairs.
Yeah, they don’t often bring their chairs. I just say you, you can’t say in the position that you’re in. The only way to get to anywhere in life is to move forward. Whether that be rolling forward or stepping forward or whatever.
Whatever you can do, let me be part of that with you or find a support network that will be encouraging for you. And lastly, like don’t hang out with toxic people. I think that’s a really big problem in the disabled community that. They tend to be surrounded by people that aren’t really supportive or that are, you know, don’t view them as elite beings, which is what they are. I mean, everyone is, um, exceptional in their own rights.
And, uh, having a different ability means that you have a lot of other options that you can do. It doesn’t mean that your main stream it and who wants to be mainstream at the end of the day, you’re not boring. And I think that’s the main draw.
Card and life will never be boring for you. Dylan: Can I add a tiny bit to that as well? The best way to change things is to talk about it as well Chantelle: aw yea that’s a good point, I am a therapists, we should everyone should talk about it. Yeah.
Dylan: But I think externally is what we’re not just in therapy. I mean it’s a taboo subject, especially with people with disability. And I think the sector previously, I know, cause I grew up in it, when I would see sex therapists or whatever, would just be. Old school chat, old school.
Chantelle: which is on of the reasons why it became a sex therapist Dylan: Exactly right. Yeah. Because you wanted to change that. But for someone with a disability, why can’t it be fun?
You know, with all these, you know, emotional talk about it in a different lens, so we’re not so scared about it. So it isn’t as scary for everyone. It’s just a lot more normal. So then more people get the opportunity to have. You know, actively sexual lives like that deserve to have Angus: and some great accessories that can help you with these sex lives as well.
I mean, just because you don’t have the ability to do something now, there are things that can help you do that thing to help your partner get that thing. Chantelle: Exactly. I don’t know. I can, I’m going to add one more.
We’re just going to keep adding now. Um, one beautiful thing that I’ve been able to create is a community for people. Um, so if you, if I have someone that comes to me and says, I don’t know how to navigate this. And until you would, you’ve had these experiences for yourself in the past, try and find someone that’s in a very similar position or I will try and find someone for you that’s able to give you advice on how they did it or how they got to where they are. Dyl when he was younger, he didn’t really know anyone who’s disabled until you started going to.
Basketball, right? Dylan: Yeah. Tennis, Chantelle: tennis, Dylan: Tennis and basketball exactly right Angus: you mentioned that in the podcast, Dylan: yeah to see a role model, and to say that it actually can happen and things like that.
I really changed my life Chantelle: to ask the questions, you know, how do you, how did you meet your partner? How do you have sex, what do you do with this and this and this. And I think the point is if you have a disability. Don’t be scared, but be vulnerable to the people around you Angus: that’s great advice.
Chantelle: Talk to them about what your challenges are and how to navigate. Angus: Can I have a guess at what I think as an outsider looking in, a big problem with sex and disability might be, is not the person who’s interested in the person with disability who are, who we have been saying since episode one step forward and make that plunge. It’s their friends and their opinion of it.
Like, hey, I’m interested in a guy, he’s a quadriplegic, but guy this I speak on the phone to for 6 hours a night. And the friends going, oh really? A quadriplegic oh God. Well, he couldn’t come into this restaurant and then casting aspersions before they get the chance.
And then that person feels like they have to justify to a friendship group who have already started from a non base level. Do we think that that could base something in sex and disability. Dylan: Ableisim, that’s the definition of ableism that a disabled person can’t do it as well as an Angus: I can’t imagine a friendship group. Even my own going, being straight up with positive thoughts. Like what a great opportunity to explore a world you don’t know.
I think there would always be at the start, like oh. Dylan: If you said my girlfriend’s in a wheelchair, Angus, they wouldn’t say, Oh, what’s her name? I go, what happened Angus: yeah, yeah. Dylan: What do you mean? Are you serious?
Angus: Yeah, how are you gonna get over that? A lot of lot of hardships. Dylan: There before they even asked what their name is or what she does.
Yeah. Angus: I think that’s really interesting part and I think that might be holding a lot of people back from making that plunge into love with somebody. Chantelle: And that’s why I said, you know, it’s, it’s best to hang around, you know, supportive community. and supportive friends because I think that. All right. Well, I know that a lot of the time friends and family do get in the way, even if it comes to funding for people with disabilities who need to see sex workers to be able to, you know, have satisfaction and to have sex because everyone is allowed to have a healthy sex life.
A lot of the time, families will not. You know, contribute towards having a sex worker to be part of that. Or you’ll see friends who, um, are really, yeah.
It really in the ear of someone who’s dating a person with a disability and saying, well, what about this? Oe they’ll just not understand, or, you’ll get, you know, invited to parties that are up like three flights of stairs. And you know, if your partner’s in an electric wheelchair, it’s just not possible. I think also just we’ve had examples or I’ve had examples of patients who’ve come in who have had, you know, girlfriends, and then the girlfriends have broken up with their, or sorry, the partners have broken up with their disabled partner and said, well, you know, I just want to have a bigger life than this, and I, I, you know, that things are going to get in the way and that’s because their family’s in their ear going, don’t do this.
Angus: it’s not what I wanted for my baby daughter, baby boy, Dylan: especially in some cultures around the world. It’s often frowned upon to date or to, you know, have a family, some of the disability. Angus: Yeah. You actually bring up a really interesting point around the cost of sex, and that’s something I’ve never thought about as well until this discussion. That’s why this podcast is great, is if you’ve got a child with a disability who once again might be on a, uh, government funding, et cetera, to have their independence.
But that doesn’t afford the cost of sex workers. It must, for one, it must be huge for someone with a disability to go to their parents to ask for money. But I can’t imagine many parents going on not going to be putting hundreds of dollars so you can get your rocks off.
You know, I’ll put it towards, you know, more accessibility in the kitchen or you know, something they think. The worth is that’s a really interesting, because how, I dunno how much is six work and, but I don’t think it would be cheap. Chantelle: no, it’s definitely over a thousand dollars each time. Um, yeah. I mean, that’s individualized.
It depends on the, the person, the family, the community. Um, and I guess I, I come from a household with really hard working parents that the moment that my parents found out that my sister had a disability, they started just working 24, seven, and they haven’t really stopped because I wanted to provide a life for her. And not everyone has that opportunity to have parents that are able to provide that Angus: that can understand disability so well, Dylan: the cost of sex applies to a lot of disabilities is a funny story. Obviously.
To have sex if you have like a paraplegia that often people will eat Viagra or Cialis. Angus: You’ve talked about for your, you know, was it Chelsea, at a Jack Jonson concert you chewed a Viagara, Dylan: and um, it cost money. You know what I mean? Chantelle: So it’s very expensive to buy Cialis and Viagra Dylan: Angus you’ll laugh at this, I can’t tell you how upsetting it was when you think you’re in, you smash a Viagra, you go out they said, no, I’m not into it.
Angus: Having free drinks in the parties canceled. Dylan: So you lost $90 $80 bucks, and also Chantelle: you’re getting hot flashes, Dylan: hot flashes, like you had a heart attack. It’s so hot and you’re trying to act cool. So there’s it across a lot of disabilities.
You know what I mean? Like there’s a commitment to have. You have the prep yourself almost, and then if it doesn’t come up, well then.
It’s a lot more wasted. It feels like sometimes people with disabilities. Yeah. Chantelle: Yeah.
I also want to add to that, you don’t have to be taking those medications. You can have really healthy sex lives without, you know, erections. Um, you can still orgasm when you don’t have an erection as well. Angus: Can you?!
Chantelle: So, yeah. Give, I dare you to give it a go, but you’ll probable get ab erection Dylan: you think there’s pressure to perform ‘normally’ um, which there, you know, you don’t have to, you know, may not. I think a lot of people would just really shy away from trying because I don’t think they can do it the proper way. It’s like, fuck that dude in whatever way you can do it and have fun. Angus: What I’ve learned is everyone has a normal.
You know, my normal is different to your normal is different to yours. So don’t listen to what your normal is. If I found out what your normal was, I would be scared about, Chantelle: I think you would Angus: I mean, that’s not my normal.
Chantelle: Your mind would be blown Angus: Yes, of course. But that’s when, I mean, is there any other topics that you want to, before I get into a bowl of uncomfortable is a, is there anything else that you believe within sex and disability that you want to get into? Why are you reaching down?
Chantelle: Dylan just sent me a very sexy text. Angus: Are you getting turned on Dylan? Dylan: I am Angus: Did hou just sext your girlfriend who is a metre away from you? Chantelle: He submitted a proposal Angus: ok, well, I feel awkward.
Let me get my bowl of uncomfortable question out of the way. I didn’t want to leave this to anyone else. This is a question from me that I think is a little uncomfortable for you to maybe, maybe not. I mean, you’re very open with your sex lives.
And I think it’s important. Can you tell myself and the audience something awkward that happened in those first moments of finding each other’s bodies and your comfortability? Aw Dylan’s pointed straight at Chantelle Chantelle: That’s not to do with disability!
Dylan: Exactly right, but it’s more clearly awkward that happened. Chantelle: No, he’s asking man disability and sexuality Dylan: does it have to be about my disability? Angus: Doesn’t necessarily. Chantelle: Oh my God, you’re so mean to me.
First time I slept over, so, okay. How do I explain this? Can we talk about it first before I talk about, Angus: I will turn the mic, or do you want to do it mics off for a minute? Dylan: no just go for it Angus: Dylan’s given you full permission Chantelle: this is me. First time I slept over, I was so nervous, um, that my guts were churning when I slept over and Dyl was spooning me from behind.
And you know, when you need to like fart and you’re like, no, Angus: you’re holding that gets worse Chantelle: in and you’re like, it’s for sleep over. And then. Did it pop on his leg. And that’s your job because you can’t control that!
Dylan: One of the best things that Chantelle: I think that normalised it Dylan: it did normalise for me, cause that’s something I was really worried about because when we go out, um, as well, like Chantelle: I blame it on you a lot, Dylan: if something smells in the restaurant, everyone looks at me. And rightfully so Chantelle goes must ahve been Dyl. Even though it was her. Chantelle: Yeah. When I fart I just always blame it on Dyl, but that time I couldn’t because you knew that I didn’t and I was so awkward.
Do you know when you like stiffen up and you’re like, fuck, Dylan: I’m glad the only thing that happened wasn’t the decel person. Chantelle: Yeah, exactly. Dylan: I got one for you Um, do you worry about us having kids that will have to do things potentially differently. Chantelle: No, I don’t ‘worry’ about it. Worries.
Not the word. I think about it in a way of fantasize about it. I’m excited for it, you know, and I’m excited about how things will be different.
I’m, you know, we might have to do, uh, things in a different way. We might have to go through IVF to have children. Um, there’s a lot of things that will be out of our control when it comes to children. Um, but I know that you and I can do so much as a team, much more than we can do as individuals. And I know that just means adjusting things a little bit.
It means having a house. It’s accessible. It means having, you know, a cot next to our bed.
So if someone’s, you know, if the child is crying or children on IVF, we might end up with three at once you know, and. If we do end up having, I do sometimes think about, you know, if we have twins or triplets, because that is a big thing that could happen if you go through IVF and that will be a really challenging time. Um, but no, I’m not worried about us as parents having children. Um.
I worry that normal things, like I work in the, in the industry that deals with people’s sex lives. So I’m like, Oh God, I would have three kids and we’re so tied, we can’t have sex. And I’m like worrying.
Dylan: Won’t be an issue from this side of the desk Chantelle: I don’t think about disability. Um, and you know, being a parent, Dylan: and I just want to try to disclaimer out here, uh, for any males out there please no Instagram DMs of the sleezy kind but however. You are very talented in what you do and you do help a lot of people. How can people get in touch with you, to to either book an appointment or get advice?
And I know you’ve got a great online community built as well Angus: and one of the most interesting, Dylan: that’s what I meant. Angus: Confrontational in a good way, like the amount of times I’ve opened up Instagram in on public transport or something, and there’s been a photo on Chantie’s Instagram, but it is a beautiful, informative site. And what is the account Dylan: before you plug that? We met a guy called Brendan Favola, who works on radio in Melbourne on the Fox, but he’s also one of Australia’s greatest forwards and AFL Carlton legend. Met Chantelle and he goes, is this Chantelle?
I was like, it is FEV. And he goes, Chantie you gave me two posts about squirting, but you said there’s five parts, me and the wife are waiting! Angus: It’s Chantelle Otten, sexologists Chantelle: Chantelle underscore, Otten underscore,sexologists Angus: should mention itself as about C H A N. T E double L E just cause it might be different ways of spelling it. And it is an account that I know everyone is going to go check out immediately after listening to this and let’s stick around and follow it. Dylan: And people can also get in touch and you do appointments Chantelle: online and in person Via www.ChantelleOtten.com dot com so C, H, A. N, T, E. L. L. E. O. T, T, E. N Angus: which is great cause it’s accessible to everybody.
Dylan: just one more reminder she is taken. Angus: Get off those DMs everybody. Thank you so much for being part of this.
Chantelle: Thank you for having me Dylan: Hey, and thank you for being my partner. I love you so much and keep doing what you’re doing in your industry because you are helping a lot of people, but most of all, you’re helping me become the person that I am and I appreciate it. Chantelle: I love you
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